There has never been a Labour Party policy to abolish commercial schools, so it has never been "hypocritical" for a Labour politician to send his child to one.
Although that is vanishingly rare, contrary to the strange urban myth on the Right that it is common practice.
You would have to be Diane Abbott to get away with it in front of a Constituency Labour Party, half of Labour Party members being teachers in the public service sector.
You would have to be Diane Abbott to get away with it in front of a Constituency Labour Party, half of Labour Party members being teachers in the public service sector.
One third of Labour Party members live in London, meaning that one in six Labour Party members in the entire country is a teacher in London public service schools.
Such as the one to which Michael Gove and David Cameron have chosen to send their daughters.
Such as the one to which Michael Gove and David Cameron have chosen to send their daughters.
For the true hypocrisy in these matters is on the Conservative side. Governments of that hue always wreak havoc in the public service sector.
Yet, until very recent years, they never, ever sent their own offspring to experience the implementation of those policies.
Yet, until very recent years, they never, ever sent their own offspring to experience the implementation of those policies.
Indeed, to a very considerable extent, they still do not. Neither Beatrice Gove attends, nor will Nancy Cameron be attending, a free school.
Miss Gove's is, as Miss Cameron's will be, a common or garden comprehensive school.
Miss Gove's is, as Miss Cameron's will be, a common or garden comprehensive school.
And yes, that is what it is. An institution does not become "not a real comp" merely because it fails to conform to the public school media's ridiculous delusions about what and how such a place ought to be.
Being academically better than many a commercial school makes the Grey Coat Hospital entirely typical of its sector.
Being academically better than many a commercial school makes the Grey Coat Hospital entirely typical of its sector.
No university in this country admits predominantly from the commercial sector. None.
The appeal of the tradesmen over the professionals, of the players over the gentlemen, is their social pull, including within certain sections of higher education, sections of which very much the same is true.
If there is a connection between house prices and the best public service schools, then that has nothing to do with avoiding commercial fees.
Even putting four sons through Eton would cost only just over one quarter of the cost of a two million pound house, and thus only just over half the cost of a one million pound house.
It would be far, far cheaper to pay the fees. But that is not the point.
A common garden comprehensive? HAHAHAHA!
ReplyDeleteHave you read the eight-page admissions criteria for Grey Coat Hospital? It's reproduced in full below.
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2014/03/what-sort-of-school-is-michael-goves-daughter-going-to-.html
The only few good state schools are only good because they're selective, as Grey Coat Hospital most certainly is.
You can't be a selective school and be a comprehensive, by the way.
The point is, what kind of a disgraceful system allows selection by money (catchment area or lengthy admissions criteria which are just coded ways of keeping out certain kids) but makes it illegal to select children on talent?
That is the hypocritical disgrace of Labour MPs who send their kids to fake comps and private schools.
As Peter Hitchens says. Labour condemn the poor to bog-standard compss which they avoid for their own children.
On state education, I have come to the conclusion that, like you, he doesn't really know what he is talking about. They all have admissions criteria of that kind of length.
DeleteLike you, he is not a product of it, he did not (unless I am very much mistaken) send his children to it, he has certainly never taught or served as a governor in it, and he converted to grammar schools, previously a term of abuse in such circles, when the application of an economic ideology about which he does have doubts but to which you are strongly committed turned the commercial schools into ghettoes of the Arab royal and the Russian oligarchical classes.
No university in this country admits predominantly from the commercial sector. None.
Grey Coat and the Oratory are common or garden comprehensives? HAHAHAHA!
ReplyDeleteHave you read the admissions criteria for Grey Coat Hospital? It's reproduced in full below.
This is how Labour (and now Tory) politicians avoid the dreadful comprehensive education they have inflicted on the rest of the country.
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2014/03/what-sort-of-school-is-michael-goves-daughter-going-to-.html
I'll quote a few choice excerpts below:
""Admission criteria – ""3.1 Up to fifteen places will be offered to girls solely on the strength of their aptitude for languages as shown by a test given for this purpose on the Languages Assessment Day.....To fill places other than Language places the Governors will refer to the results of literacy and non-verbal reasoning tests given on Assessment Day....80 places will be given to girls from practising Church of England families living in the area covered by the dioceses of London and Southwark. (Applications must be supported by a clergy reference.) ... priority will be given to sisters* of current Grey Coat pupils who are of statutory school age at the time the application is made and who will be on roll in years 7 to 11 at the school at the time of admission.....pplicants ranked by points awarded to a maximum of 10 (5 for parent and 5 for child). Only one point may be scored under each heading.
Parent holding elected office in the church
Parent being a communicant member
Parent on the church’s electoral or other membership roll
Parent having a role in public worship/ministry""
A COMPREHENSIVE, Lindsay?
Are you kidding?
The only few good state schools are only good because they're selective, as Grey Coat Hospital most certainly is.
You can't be a selective school and be a comprehensive, by the way.
The point is, what kind of a disgraceful system allows selection by money (catchment area or lengthy admissions criteria which are just coded ways of keeping out certain kids) but makes it illegal to select children on talent?
That is the hypocritical disgrace of Labour MPs who send their kids to fake comps and private schools. As Peter Hitchens says. Labour condemn the poor to bog-standard comps which they avoid for their own children.
Normal, all of it. Quite took me back to my governing days, in fact. All of this is, as it were, bog standard.
DeleteMr. Lindsay and I served together for many years as governors of a Catholic comp in the backwoods of Co. Durham. It was also a specialist language college. Apart from the denominational difference, these criteria are as good as word for word the same, they might even be literally word for word the same. Anyone who thinks that they are odd or exceptional knows NOTHING about state schools.
DeleteLess of the "backwoods", thank you.
DeletePrivate schools pretend to be good academically by counting their own funny exams that nobody who has real inspections uses. Those are also included in the league tables compiled for the benefit of Tory newspapers. But it's all balls, as you know. As you have said before, state schools that performed like them would be in special measures.
ReplyDeleteAnd as I say again, academia is not what anyone who uses these places is buying. In that case, they would spend vastly less on a house near a good state school.
DeleteNot that even that is ordinarily necessary. The comp where I was a pupil for seven years, and then a governor for eight, served Consett and Stanley. Look them up, if you have to.
It did a lot better than all right. It still does.
Yes-and that's why "Catholic comps" have far fewer kids on free school meals than the average for their catchment area (http://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/mar/05/church-schools-shun-poorest-pupils)
ReplyDeleteSchools like the Oratory (and Grey Coat Hospital) are how Labour politicians void the dreadful comprehensives they have inflicted on the poor of this country.
If you think a kid from a single-mother home in a council estate has a cat's chance in hell of getting into a place with an admissions criteria like that (or his parents have
The only good comprehensives are ferociously selective. As the best Catholic schools are, and as Grey Coat Hospital most certainly is.
But what kind of disgusting decides a child's life chances by which precise block of flats that child lives in, (and eight pages of other specifications) but makes it illegal to select by talent?
A disgusting society. Built by and for Leftwing politicians.
If you think a kid from a single-mother home in a council estate has a cat's chance in hell of getting into a place with an admissions criteria like that
DeleteI know for a fact that that "kid" has that chance.
The only good comprehensives are ferociously selective.
Totally false. Persistent repetition in some public schoolboy's newspaper column does not make it true.
As the best Catholic schools are
They couldn't be, even if they wanted to be. That is not what Catholic Britain looks like.
Grey Coat Hospital is posh because it's in a posh area. Same goes for the Oratory, although Catholic schools like that are much rarer because Catholics are mostly less posh than Anglicans. Either way though, only reflecting the local community like any other comps.
DeleteIn reply to Mr Lindsay (23:50)
ReplyDeleteThat the only good state schools are ferociously selective is a fact-see the only ones that made the top 100http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/leaguetables/11374645/Top-100-secondary-schools-by-GCSE-results-2014.html
All the best Catholic schools are ferociously selective-and they select covertly by money. See here: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/mar/05/church-schools-shun-poorest-pupils
Not only do they have a lower proportion of poor pupils than most comprehensives nationally-they have a far lower proportion than any other schools in their own local area.Think that's an accident, Lindsay?
The only good state schools are selective schools. Of course.
Ones with six-page admissions criteria that filter out poor kids with parents who don;t have time to sit on certain positions in the parish, do fundraising and teach their kids foreign languages.
Would Lindsay defend a healthcare system that decided the quality of care patients got on the precise block of flats they lived in and how rich their parents were?
Then why does he defend a schools system that does this, and the politicians that avoid the appalling bog-standard schools they inflict on the poor?
www.telegraph.co.uk/
DeleteSpeaks for itself.
All the best Catholic schools are ferociously selective-and they select covertly by money.
They couldn't possibly do so. That is just not Catholic Britain.
Ones with six-page admissions criteria
That's all of them.
You really do need to give this up.
Common or garden comprehensive?
ReplyDeleteThe Daily Mirror investigated your "common" or "garden" comprehensive.
I think once you've read this, you might apologise for this blog.
"The London state school that David Cameron wants his daughter to attend says a lot about what’s wrong with faith education in this country.
Grey Coat Hospital academy is a successful Anglican secondary, with 86% or pupils getting five or more GCSEs including English and maths with a grade of C or better.
But one reason for its impressive results was the way religion acted as a barrier to pupils who might be – how shall we say? – problematic. Although all taxpayers fund this school, taxpayers who are not Anglicans have little chance of getting a place for their children.
Even attending regular Church of England mass was not enough, because until recently Great Coat used an opaque points system to decide who was let in and who was excluded.
One parent who complained to the government’s Office of the Schools Adjudicator said: “It is unfair and unreasonable to offer places to children based on how many church activities their family is involved in. Many families, especially single-parent ones who work, find it difficult to find the time to get involved in flower arranging, for example, or church events in the evening that may necessitate a babysitter and financial outlay.”
The tactic is repugnant – but if the objective was to keep out oiks, then it worked because at Grey Coat in Westminster only 14% of pupils are eligible for free school meals despite the average in the borough being 36%. The proportion of pupils who do not have English as a first language is also well below the borough average.
The Fair Admissions Campaign puts it in the worst 1% of state secondary schools ranked by socio-economically inclusivity.
In November 2013 the Office of the Schools Adjudicator ruled that Grey Coat was breaking the admissions code"
Anti-"faith schools" boilerplate worthy of Kenneth Baker.
DeletePoints systems are universal. If you knew anything, then you would know that.
The Fair Admissions Campaign puts it in the worst 1% of state secondary schools ranked by socio-economically inclusivity.
In other words, it is in a rich area. It cannot help that. It is the local comp, and that is its locale.
Mr Lindsay has dug himself a massive hole with this one.
ReplyDeleteGrey Coat Hospital-which he hilariously called a "common or garden comprehensive"-has only 14% of pupils are eligible for free school meals, despite the average in the borough being... 36%!
Lindsay defends a schools system that selects by wealth, but makes it illegal to select by talent? (Would he defend a healthcare system that selected by wealth?)
A system where a parent refused a place at Grey Coat complained in the Mirror....""It is unfair and unreasonable to offer places to children based on how many church activities their family is involved in. Many families, especially single-parent ones who work, find it difficult to find the time to get involved in flower arranging, for example, or church events in the evening that may necessitate a babysitter and financial outlay.”
Lindsay and the Labour Party are fake friends of the poor.
As I think this conversation confirms.
only 14% of pupils are eligible for free school meals
DeleteIt's in a rich area. It is the local comp, and that is its locale.
"A schools system that selects by wealth" does not exist in this country, and you need to stop blaming other people for the failures of your own life, or demanding that the rest of us provide you with what your own economic ideology has lately placed beyond your means, before which you scorned any and all state eduction, actual or hypothetical.
""It's in a rich area. It is the local comp, and that is its locale.""
ReplyDeleteCompared to an average of 36% in its area.
You're actually too thick to read aren't you?
As for "the failures of your own life", I'd keep a little quiet if I were a loser who lives at home and does nothing but Tweet and blog all day.
Poor Lindsay doesn't have a job,
36 per cent in the Borough. That is not the area of one school.
DeleteMr. Lindsay does work a bit, but he has very little apparent need to. Have you ever met him? The most beautifully dressed and spoken of men. If I had his home to live in, I'd never leave either. Knows absolutely everybody, too.
DeleteYou on the other hand are obviously very twisted and he has touched a raw nerve by pointing out that you are blaming your school for your lack of success. I think it is more likely you resent the people the comprehensives gave a chance to, for taking what you were bred/inbred to assume would be yours by right no mater how thick you were. So your school is part of it, your bog standard private school that is. But mostly the fault is yours.
On topic, please.
DeleteYou are right about him, of course. He is very easy to picture. He would still have been a nobody if he had gone to a comp. But he would have been a less entitled nobody, and thus a less a resentful one.
But on topic, please.
f the objective was to keep out oiks, then it worked because at Grey Coat in Westminster only 14% of pupils are eligible for free school meals despite the average in the borough being 36%. The proportion of pupils who do not have English as a first language is also well below the borough average.
ReplyDeleteBut a school's area is not a whole borough, certainly not in practice. Ever. It's in a rich area. What can it do?
DeleteIf you want your children to be educated in a school where hardly anyone speaks English or even holds a British passport, then go private.